We pretty much expect that if we're lucky enough to retire, we're going to experience transition. But most of us retire and make incremental changes. Others just upend their lives and try something completely new! Today's guest, Alex Belisle, fits the latter category.
A high school English teacher in New York City for 36 years, Alex retired and started running, hiking, riding his bike. But it wasn't enough to keep him fully occupied. So when his wife suggested he take up a hobby, he looked into photography. And when a local newspaper placed an ad seeking freelance photographers, Alex dove right in, ending up with a New York City press pass and a lucrative gig with Nike Sports!
But there was more to come. In an unexpected move (literally), Alex and his family gave up the only life he had ever know (in the big city!) and moved to his wife's hometown of Lakewood, a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio. That's more than just a geographic shift; it's a seismic cultural shift too!
NOTE: The show transcript is now edited. Please check it out on the tab provided!
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Passing Through Life podcast
copyright 2018 Luanne Bole-Becker
Episode 7: Leaving the Big Apple
Alex Belisle interview recorded 9.6.18; podcast published 4.3.19
We pretty much expect that if we're lucky enough to retire, we're going to experience transition. But most of us retire and make incremental changes. Others just upend their lives and try something completely new! Today's guest, Alex Belisle, fits the latter category.
A high school English teacher in New York City for 36 years, Alex retired and started running, hiking, riding his bike. But it wasn't enough to keep him fully occupied. So when his wife suggested he take up a hobby, he looked into photography. And when a local newspaper placed an ad seeking freelance photographers, Alex dove right in, ending up with a New York City press pass and a lucrative gig with Nike Sports!
But there was more to come. In an unexpected move (literally), Alex and his family gave up the only life he had ever know (in the big city!) and moved to his wife's hometown of Lakewood, a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio. That's more than just a geographic shift; it's a seismic cultural shift too!
NOTE: The show transcript is now edited. Please check it out on the tab provided!
*********************************************
Passing Through Life podcast
copyright 2018 Luanne Bole-Becker
Episode 7: Leaving the Big Apple
Alex Belisle interview recorded 9.6.18; podcast published 4.3.19
This is"Passing Through Life," a show that explores how people navigate major life changes. Just how do we make it through what life throws at us? I'm your host, Luanne Bole-Becker. Today's episode is entitled"Leaving the Big Apple." It's episode number seven, an interview with Alex Belisle, a retired teacher and photographer who spent his whole life living and working in New York City only to retire in Lakewood, a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio. So welcome Alex. Thanks for joining us.
Alex::Hey, it's nice to be here. This ought to be real interesting.
Lu::Of course it will, because we're both interesting! Alex, you and I only recently met. Somehow we got connected through your photography. It's probably your Facebook page and probably the one called Faces of Lakewood, I think, which roughly, if I'm correct, took its inspiration from the street photography of Humans of New York, right?
Alex::That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. As soon as I moved here, I started looking for a Humans of Lakewood. There was actually a page, but it was only up and seen for a few months. So I said,"Well, I'll make it like that, but I'll make it Faces of Lakewood" because this way I could do more than just people. Because pets, buildings and other things are also faces.
Lu::I think the reason I connected, not only seeing your photography, but, I had lived in Lakewood for nearly 30 years. And I would read your posts and kind of see this transition happening of moving here from New York City.
Alex::I bet you also saw my first post, which was really Catching the Light in Lakewood, which was an effort to be like a photo blog. And I had some of it also in the Lakewood Observer, which is the local paper. And a lot of people were saying they really look forward to seeing that because I'm giving them a look at Lakewood that's unique from the people that have lived there all their lives.
Lu::Okay, excellent. Yeah, seeing it from the outside is always different. I just wanted you to like Lakewood. I always did enjoy living in Lakewood. I'm now 10 minutes away in Old Brooklyn, which is kind of funny. Old"Brooklyn."
Alex::Yeah. Really funny for me when somebody said they're going to Brooklyn, I said, why are you going 500 miles away to Brooklyn? I didn't know there was a Brooklyn in this area.
Lu::That's right. We've got one too! Our paths were crossing first online. And then as I'd go to events, I'd see you and I know we introduced ourselves to each other and here we are. This show is about transitions. So the two that I wanted to talk about were first the obvious change, geographically moving from one of the biggest cities in the world to one that's not quite so big. I mean, it is still a city, but...
Alex::But it is unique because it's the most dense city for its size between New York City and Chicago. So it might be a little city, but it's a dense little city.
Lu::Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Lakewood is residential. It's also known as a city of churches and bars, which every corner has got one. And then there's also a transition,and we'll talk more about that, that you were a high school teacher but then also transitioning into photography and kind of how that happened and how it's continuing.
Alex::I call it reinvention of self. And I more older people need to think about reinventing themselves because then it makes life just more interesting, makes it more challenging, keeps their mind alert. And new is good.
Lu::Just without going into great detail, because we'll do that later. Back up a bit and just say, what are you doing now in general?
Alex::I would say that right now I'm doing a lot of freelance photography. Some cases I do get paid and a lot of cases I do things for free because I just love photography.
Lu::And what kind of photography where you doing in New York City?
Alex::Well first I first started just taking pictures for myself. And then I worked as a freelance photo journalist for a small paper in my borough of the Bronx. And that connected me with the New York Post and Wall Street Journal because it was part of News Corps. And then as I was taking more and more pictures, I eventually got lucky. I was at a basketball tournament and I met someone who was the brand director for eastern United States, Nike basketball. And then I ended up working for Nike basketball, taking pictures of outdoor basketball tournaments in New York City. And I did some fashion work, but it was on my own, sort of like freelance fashion work. There's tons of fashion, you know.
Lu::Okay. And then I want to take you back just a little bit. You told me that prior to moving here, you spent your whole life living in apartments. Tell me about that. So a little bit about your background, where'd you grow up and what was life like in New York City?
Alex::Well, like anything, if you don't know what it's like to be on the other side of it...I lived in an apartment, that's all I could remember. And while I was living in the apartment, I never thought of either buying a house or living in a house. I thought, well, buying a house is just too expensive. You know, living in New York City, everything is expensive. But my wife grew up in a house in Lakewood. I met her in college in Massachusetts, married and took her back to New York City. So when my kids, my adult kids at that time, 36 and 41 were with me in the car in Connecticut, they said,"Well, you know, you're talking about retiring." And they said,"Why don't you buy a house?" And I said,"Wait a minute, retirees, we don't buy houses. We move out of a house, right?"
Lu::You sell them.
Alex::Then my daughter started looking up home prices in Howard Hannah and Zillow and she started throwing out these real estate, the home prices for Lakewood. And after a while I said to my daughter, I said,"You're missing a digit. I mean$1,250,000." She said,"No,$250,000." I said,"You gotta be kidding me!" And well, how do you turn that down?
Lu::Okay, we'll talk about that some more. But I want to hear a little bit more about New York.'Cause I want to understand, this is about transitions. What's different?
Alex::It's the energy.[Okay.] And you hear all kinds of people say the same thing even on commercials and TV. And that's the thing. After I moved here, I'm watching TV and all these shows have New York City in the background, especially the criminal shows. I'm like,"Oh, I know where that is. I've been there." Oh my gosh, I really miss Manhattan. And the energy is hard to explain. If you're in the middle of it, like you're in a forest and you're surrounded by trees, you don't think about the trees because you're in the forest. In New York City, there's all that energy. And with me working for the press, I was all over the place. And then working for Nike-- sports and fashion. But I think I was able to take some of the energy with me when I moved from New York City to Lakewood and that's why I'm always running around and doing all the photography that I do. And I guess when you grow up in a place that's so full of energy and vitality, you can't just leave all that behind.
Lu::Right? That's in you. You're right. I mean you've had that... Does it translate also about... Is there kind of a New York attitude of being work wise, like aggressive, pushy?
Alex::Yeah. I just spoke to some younger photographers and some friends about doing things. I was at the air show and I managed to go up with the US Army Golden Knights parachute team in the plane. And I guess also I had all my camera equipment and I look like I've been doing this forever. So the guys said,"You know what, we'll put you right next to the door." And the door is open all the way and I got some really great video, but the whole idea was to be aggressive, ask for stuff. If people say no, well, so what? It's a no, but if you don't ask, you never get a a possible yes. And at 14,500 feet it was really, really cold up there. But like I said, part of it's not real aggression. In a positive way, especially with the newspaper, working for any newspaper that your editors always tell you"Get that shot!" You know, make sure you get that shot. So New York City, that means I'm fighting with another 30, 40, 50 photographers and guys from the TV stations and the big cameras, et cetera. So you pick that up. And, and even driving in New York City, being as crowded and as big as it is, you can't really get anywhere unless you have to be a little pushy.
Lu::Do you think that has served you well here? Well, how long have you been here?
Alex::Three, three and a half years as of this podcast interview. It actually was a slight problem for someone I worked for in Lakewood. I won't mention his name and he didn't understand me. You know,"Maybe you're running all over the place. Maybe that's something you got from New York City." That's his quote. And I said,"Well, so be it." For instance, as a photographer, a lot of photographers will focus on one genre. It could be landscape, could be nature, it could be sports, could be fashion. I like to do a lot of everything. I find it more interesting. And so I think coming from New York City, you become like... somebody called me a renaissance man. And the idea of not just rebirth and reinvention of self, but of dabbling in many different areas that touch on aesthetics and photography. By the way, it's interesting because it's a combination of technology and aesthetics. Where do you get that kind of combination? You know, the idea of taking a picture is an idea of being able to create a composition in your mind. And then technically make it happen. And so that's what's so really appealing for me personally in terms of photography.
Lu::Okay. You mentioned aesthetics. Good segue! Because when we talked earlier you said there was a difference between the way people either understand aesthetics, you know, what they believe is good or they react to, and even their understanding. We were talking about shooting fashion models and whether they even understand sort of the history. Could you talk about that because of this whole paradigm shift?
Alex::Yeah. Right. I tell people I'm still caught up in a huge cultural paradigm shift of trying to understand the new culture that I'm part of in Lakewood, Ohio. Sort of a Midwestern culture, if you want to use that term, different than the big city. And I wasn't sure if the problem wasn't appreciation of aesthetics or it was an economic problem. Because if you live in an area that's sort of economically depressed, which this area is this, the rust belt, and they really didn't bounce back from the stock market crash in 2007, 2008. And you know, you're so busy working and making a living, paying the rent and paying the mortgage, that who cares about fashion? But I spoke to another photographer who was a cardiologist and had his own photography studio store in Lakewood. And he said to me,"You know what?" He says,"Even the rich people around this area..." And he mentioned some areas out west of Lakewood. He said,"They've never been to the Cleveland Museum of art." And I was like,"Seriously?" Not only is it ranked number two or three in the United States, but it's free. Right?
:Right. No excuses not to go at least once.
Alex::Right. And when you walk in the place, if it's a weekday when school is in, you literally have the museum to yourself. No Way that happens on Fifth Avenue at the Metropolitan Museum of art. The place is packed all the time. And so maybe there is sort of a disconnect between even people who are making good money and their appreciation of aesthetics. Again, in New York City it's easier to grow up being exposed to finer things and the arts and music and theater and dance and all those wonderful things that comprise, I guess the term aesthetics. So here you don't have that exposure.
Lu::Well you have it, but, but it's not as intense right there, right? Yeah. So you can access it if you want but not as much. It's not bombarding you. It's more if you look for it, it's there, but not... The other thing, I was wondering what you said about it being empty. New York City would also have just so many people coming into that city. Cleveland has become more attractive as a tourist city, but that's clearly not its personality.
Alex::When I covered the first primary debates for the RNC in Cleveland, I think it was two summers ago. And the big talk was that this was going to really make Cleveland. It did, but I think sports really made Cleveland. Yeah. You know with Lebron James and the Cavs won the NBA Championship and the Cleveland Indians nearly winning the World Series. I think sports really has put Cleveland on the map, more so than that political event, you know, the RNC. I was really surprised by how small downtown Cleveland was. When people ask me to compare let's say, Cleveland with New York City or even Lakewood with New York City, which is kind of ridiculous. But I tell them, you could put downtown Cleveland inside Central Park, which is in the middle of Manhattan. That's the kind of comparison you can make, that I made. And I also see a disparity between the sort of Cleveland proper, I guess, outside of downtown Cleveland. I saw a lot of impoverishment. I mean, I've seen poverty in New York, in Harlem and the South Bronx, but I saw impoverishment. And impoverishment is not poverty. Poverty is more centered on lack of income, money. Impoverishment is a lack of culture, lack of class, lack of education, lack of money, lack of even self respect when you're really put down. And I found, now I found that out. I got on the buses and the trains. I said, you know, I want to see the real people live their life, then get on the train, get on the buses and just pay attention.
Lu::How has this shaped a little bit when you do your photography? What do you find people react to more? I know you've talked about using the Norman Rockwell effect. Is there a different thing that those of us who live in this area at respond to so far? And when you're shooting?
Alex::That's a good question, but I think you have to split the question into two parts. Okay. One, what did the people respond to when I do photography with them? And the other part of the question is what kind of photography do they appreciate when they actually see the product? Okay, now we'll go the second part. I had to find that out. I didn't know what people liked. I found that very quickly they like Lake Erie, sunsets and sunrises, and they like nature. And I didn't see that much street photography because I saw so much more in New York City. But then it's so dense and so many people. A lot of times during the middle of the week in Lakewood proper anyway, streets are practically empty if the schoolis in. Whereas, I never saw that back in New York City. And the other part is the process. I learned as a teacher to be a people person. Because if you're a people person, your students, they react to you in a more positive way because their feeling is, gee, he really likes us. So the whole learning process is easier. So even when I take pictures of people, I like to interact with the subjects. I like to talk with them first and smile and laugh and try to catch the essence of who they are. So sometimes when you put those photos out, and especially now, recently I apply a filter that I call my Norman Rockwell filter. It gives that sense of the all American city and has a sense of intimacy."Wow. I'm in that picture. Look! And that so looks like a painting!" And matter of fact, yesterday somebody saw one of my photos I did of the crowd at the Cleveland Air Show at Burke Airport. And the comment was,"Oh my God, I thought this was a painting until you said it was a photo! And it looks just like a Norman Rockwell!"
:So they said that unsolicited?
Alex::Yes, unsolicited. When I read that, I was like, yes, thank you so much. That was my intention.
:Okay. Okay. So how has it been psychologically making this switch? You know, you talked about how it came about. I was going to ask you that. You knew you were retiring. I think when we talked before you thought, hey, maybe we'll go south to nicer weather. But you have family ties with your wife. Well, let's talk about your wife a little bit. How did she feel about moving back here and how has that transition gone?
Alex::Oh, of course her BFF is still here from childhood. So, you know what that's like. Plus it closes the circle. You know, when husbands take wives away from their roots and their family and stuff, it's sometimes because of a job, what not. It closed the circle. And so she was very happy. She always wanted the front porch. Matter of fact, when we looked at homes, if it didn't have a front porch, we didn't even look at it. Okay. So she has her swing, her swinging bench that's on the front porch. We have a fairly good size front porch, I mean, front yard and back yard. So there's a lot of gardening. And my daughter who was, I thought a real city girl, she's really gotten into gardening. So they have, we have animals all over, we have flowers all over. She loves it. But what is interesting is I'm more engaged in the social events of Lakewood, maybe because of the photography than she is. Matter of fact, I ask her,"Have you ever been to this event in Lakewood when you were a child?" And she'll say,"No, I heard about it." But that was the surprise for me. And, like I said, I'm more involved in social events in Lakewood than she is, but she's happy. But we have an 1895 Victorian and we're learning very quickly that old homes have to be looked after.
:Okay, so you didn't have that in an apartment?
Alex::They came and they fixed stuff.
:Oh, well, yeah.
Alex::Not here.
:That's why...Well, I mean that doesn't account for it being, you know, a couple of hundred thousand dollars. But still, yeah, you have to have a budget for keeping your house up and somehow do that. Were people friendly when you came here? I mean, what was it like when you first moved in?
Alex::Yes, it was very friendly. You know, the traditional, knock on the door, here's a cake.
Lu::That actually happened?
Alex::More than once! Yes. Like, wow, these people are pretty cool. And even I came in the winter of 2015. There was a lot of snow and it was cold. And while I was shoveling a neighbor across the street came over and introduced himself and started talking. And when I speak to people from Lakewood and I mention I'm from New York City, it's as if the door opens just a little bit more because people are sort of fascinated by New York City. Just mentioning that.
:And then when I say I worked for New York City Press Corps, oh my gosh. And so a friend back in New York City, when I spoke about this briefly on Facebook, I think I talked about how friendly people are, how nice they are. He said,"You know what, Alex? You're finally in a community." And I had to kind of think about that. You brought in New York City. I lived in a building that had 400 families and yet, and I know for a fact, I didn't know everybody on my floor yet. I know more people on my block in Lakewood than I did back in New York City on my floor of my building.
Lu::Wow. Is that a good thing?
Alex::Well, I won't talk about my immediate neighbors.
Lu::I'm not asking you to! In general, the idea of people knowing who is around you and being part of a community, do you find that a good thing?
Alex::Well, it's easier for me as a photographer because people say,"Oh, that's Alex." Or"He's Faces of Lakewood!" They don't even know my name.
Lu::Right! Do you miss the excitement and energy of New York?
Alex::That's not a fair question.
Lu::And why not?
Alex::You know I love Manhattan.
Lu::Well, it's not a bad thing.
Alex::No, it's good, yes. There's something about Manhattan. I mean, look, just turn on your TV and just skim through all the movies and shows. And I would say 50% of your TV shows and movies might have a New York City backdrop and it's usually Manhattan. It's so rich. All the vitality and the energy and so many things are happening and, yeah, I'm missing Manhattan.
Lu::Okay. Are you happy you moved here?
Alex::Some days I question... I wouldn't say I'm unhappy, but I question the move because I have an old house and there's so many things I'm learning about living in a house. And there are things of a political nature in a small town like Lakewood. But I said to myself, we had the same stuff in New York City. But because Lakewood's a microcosm, New York City's a macrocosm, you know. I said to my wife,"You know those soap operas you watch on TV?" I said,"I think we moved into one!" And I'm not going to get into the specifics, but everywhere you go there's all kinds of political chicanery and stuff going on and you just have to, you know, deal with it.
Lu::I'll ask you at the end more if you have any advice for somebody following in your footsteps. But I want to talk about the kind of second transition. You were a teacher and I think you mentioned this before, but talk a little bit about retiring from what were you doing teaching and then how you got into photography a little more.
Alex::I taught high school English for 36 years in New York City Board of Education, which I'm very happy for because the teachers union in New York City is like the most powerful or second most powerful in the United States. And it helped in terms of my salaries. It helped in terms of my pension, of my annuity, of medical coverage.[Good job!} You're taking New York City money, New York City pension, et cetera. That financial piece and especially health coverage was prime. You know, I had primo health coverage. And that helped a lot. But when I first retired, I mean, think about it this way. My wife was not used to having me home for 36 years during the day.[Right.] So all of a sudden I'm home and I'm like,"You know, I want to find a niche." Okay, I was working out, I was running, I was going hiking and Geo caching and stuff like that, riding my bike. But there was something else that I wanted to do when my wife said,"Well, why don't you get a hobby?
Lu::Did you have hobbies when you were teaching or just no time for that?
Alex::I was probably working out a lot and, I mean, I was into sports. I ran the New York City Marathon and did the Big Apple triathlons and sports, played a lot of basketball and stuff like that. And I think that was also a way of keeping not only physically healthy but mentally healthy. Because it was a very... I was a dean for 10 years in addition to teaching English. So I was dealing with gang fights and drugs and all kinds of craziness and discipline issues. Imagine, breaking up a fight between, you know, 300 kids in a cafeteria, then walking into a double period of AP English Teaching Shakespeare.
Lu::That's a transition!
Alex::Well it is. And I should have gotten two salaries too. So anyway, I got into a hobby. I've always been intrigued by photography. And by working for a newspaper, it enhanced the learning process. It was a steep learning curve, but you learn quicker when you're working at it.
Lu::Well, how'd you get into a newspaper?
Alex::It was simple. They simply advertised."We're looking for freelance photographers." You know, people have jobs and don't have time to do that. You know, I had the time and I said, I have nothing to lose
Lu::Did you have a camera?
Alex::Well, I bought a camera. It gave me an excuse to buy a camera that I would never probably have bought. And when my wife said,"It cost what?" I was like,"Well, listen, I have to have a decent camera to do this." And then it just took off from there. And I had an editor who was a photographer himself, trained in photography. He was the bureau chief for the Daily News in Brooklyn and the Bronx I think. So he was really well known and he had moved down to the local community level paper. So I was working with people who were experienced and knowledgeable and they understood. That really helped a lot. He was all over the world and jumped out of planes and stuff, war zones, that kind of a guy, you know, so he was the real deal.
Lu::I love how you go from finding a hobby and I mean there's no reason you have to turn a hobby into work, but in your case, something your self taught, right? In terms of doing the photography.
Alex::Thank goodness for YouTube videos and the Internet and talking to otherphotographers in New York City. You're going to bump into all these older veteran photographers. They come to an assignment. It's not just you. So you just start talking to these guys and you learn really good stuff from these guys though, because they come out of film into digital, you know?
Lu::Okay. Okay. So which newspapers, where did you end up working with?
Alex::Well, it was called a Bronx Times reporter, but because they were part of News Corp, it was the Rupert Murdoch group who bought Wall Street Journal and the New York Post. So then every weekend, a lot of my stuff that was in the weekly edition of the paper would show up in the Sunday edition in the New York Post. We're talking about exposure to maybe 5 million people
Lu::And out of a hobby. I like it. You don't do think small, do you, Alex?
Alex::That's where it was, you know, living in New York City.
Lu::Okay. And then how does this...well, I don't even know if it does lead to that. But you mentioned briefly the whole Nike thing. Go into a little more detail because I think this is valuable for someone listening of how to turn something, a chance meeting, into something that becomes... it affects your whole life.
Alex::Yeah. And that's, that's a good point. So much of life is chance. Sometimes the chance is so subtle that we don't think about it. Other times it's like,"Oh my gosh, how lucky I am, the big chance." In my case, I had a New York City Press Pass, which is not that easy to get. So when you have these, you know, vetted by One Police Plaza, it allows you to go into crime scenes and fires and emergencies, et Cetera. So anyway, I showed up at a basketball tournament next to a beach in Pelham Bay Park, which is the largest park in New York City. And it has, you know, water and forest. It's large. And so here, right off the boardwalk at the beach, are the basketball courts. And I, because I have my New York City press pass on and I have my big camera equipment and I just look because I'm older and I look...
Lu::oh, you've got the nice distinguished grey!
:Yeah, I've got that grey going on. You can go anywhere you want, you can take any picture you want, you've got total access. So during halftime of one game, a young man walks out of the stands and he introduces himself and he says,"Well, you wouldn't happen to have an extra battery for your camera?" We're shooting Nikons. But I said,"Even if I did our models are different, the battery models will also be different. So we exchanged business cards, you know, for the paper. And so I said to him,"Well, what do you do?" So he says,"Well, I'm the branding director, marketing director for Nike Basketball, eastern United States. They divide the United States into four segments. Chicago's the headquarters in the Midwes,t Manhattan the headquarters in eastern United States. And so that night I sent him a Facebook album, 30, 40 pictures. And his response within about half an hour was,"Wow! These are really good pictures.'
Lu::So that's got to make you feel good.
Alex::I said,"Well, you know, you could always give me some work." What's he going to say? No. So what? At least I asked. A week later, I got an email that ends with nike.com."Here's a work schedule for Nike Tournament of Champions in Brooklyn, New York." And so then he calls me up. Well one of his people calls me up and I actually I get another email that has three thumbnails and they said,"Can we have the high res for these three thumbnails? She asked for that. They're going to use them, right. I was like,"Okay, I'm in." And then he says,"What's your pay rate?" Well, that kind of floored me because working for a global company is not like working for you and me and your cousin and your friend and whatever school pictures. So he said, you know what, don't worry about it. Think about it. And I'll speak to you next week. And then he calls me up and he says,"Oh, you know, we were talking about it. What we're thinking about, you know,$500 a game." I'm like,"oh, okay."
Lu::Yeah, yeah, I think I could work with that!
Alex::Then when I show up at the site, brand new gym in what used to be the Navy Yards, Brooklyn Navy Yards, it's a lot of history there. They had this like photo gallery where you walk into, there's two entrances to the gym with these large photos about three feet, four feet, you know, big. And I'm looking up and I'm like,"Those two are mine!" Remember, I remember they asked for those thumbnails. And you know, you're not used to seeing your stuff blown up and up there like in a gallery unless you're really good. And so one thing led to another and then they picked me up for doing outdoor basketball games. In some cases, some people were hesitant because the neighborhood's real dangerous and bad, but once you're in that court, you know, you're good, you get a lot of respect. My editor, I had a young Asian editor, and he was very interesting. He said to me,"You know, Alex, when you send your photos into us and the editors go through the whole thing, I know which ones are yours before I see your name." And that kind of floored me because it's basketball. How different can it be? Well, what I do did was a lot of also spectator things and branding things. Nike is huge on brand. I learned about marketing, I learned about branding. I learned what it's like to work for a company. You couldn't even show up at the site if you wore something that was not Nike. That's a no-no, so you learned this stuff. And then I figured, well between saying I'm from New York City plus I worked for Nike, I can just about go anywhere and do anything. People are like,"oh wow."
Lu::Right. That gives you a credibility
Alex::it gives you props. Right? Right. Yeah. Major props.
Lu::Yeah. It's kinda like you're vetted already, if Nike thinks you're okay.
Alex::so I have a New York City Press Pass, which I'll flip out. I said,"you want to see what an NYC press pass looks like?" You know, because talk is cheap. So they're looking at it like,"Ohhhhhh."
Lu::You're good, you're good. So again, as we've talked about, you've moved now into Lakewood. And just by comparison, I did look this up because we talked previously about it being dense. New York City is like 8 million people. Cleveland proper is only what, 400,000, but the metropolitan area, 2 million. Still a city, but smaller. And then Lakewood's about 50,000 in...
Alex::In seven square miles or something like that?
Lu::Yeah. It's just packed. There's almost no industry there. So how did you find work when you got here?
Alex::Well...
Lu::And you weren't looking at... let me clarify because I think you clarified with me the first time you weren't looking for a fulltime job. You're still retired,
Alex::You know, is there a paper in Lakewood? And it was, it was the Lakewood Observer. And so it was a volunteer thing. And so they took me on, gladly, actually took me on. And I started shooting for them. And because I was around local Lakewood events, I got to know people and then that whole social networking is critical. If you don't have a handle on social networking, especially as a photographer, you're not really going to get too far because everybody is a photographer, they have a phone, they're a photographer. But if you really want to make...if you connection with the right people... Sometimes it's that one. Like in my case, just one person, I bumped into one person at the right time at the right place. Boom. That was the key.
:And then I made some friends of Ohio photographers, especially in fashion. There's this one guy that lives here. Am I allowed to say his name?
Lu::If you'd like to, yeah.
:Jeff Hartman of Bitmod studios. He lived for a while in Bolivar, Ohio. And he was so good when I saw his stuff. And then I worked also as freelancing for a magazine, Haute Ohio. Haute cuisine, you know, high fashion couture. Not hot couture, that's pronunciation! And so I met through the publisher, Jackie Bertolett, I think she's in Willoughby Hills of that magazine, Haute Ohio fashion magazine. In fact, I'm going to do a show in Ohio fashion week. I'll be shooting all the runway stuff and behind the scenes stuff for that. But when I saw his stuff, Jeff Hartman stuff, it was so good. I said to him,"You know, it's a shame you were born in Ohio." Really. Remember what we said about chance? Yes, you don't have control of where you're going to be born. If you would have been born and lived in New York City, this guy would've been rich now. I mean that's how good he is. And he can't connect with the right person or persons, and, and I feel bad for him.
Lu::I want to explore that a little bit because the next thing I was going to ask you about... I was going to give you a chance without, you know, focusing too negative, the whole idea of getting paid to be an artist. Let's just talk about that. Because, my husband and I have done video work.
Alex::Artists are supposed to work for free, right?
Lu::Yeah. Yeah. And give their things away for auctions.
Alex::I was asked,"Why do you take pictures? Shouldn't you be sharing them? I mean, that's why you take pictures, right?" And I'm like,"Okay, a person writes a book and he just gives it away?" I don't think so.
Lu::Right. Maybe that ties into that whole aesthetic again of just maybe not valuing it enough. But talking a little bit. So this gentleman that you're talking about, what kind of rates could he command if he was in New York City?
Alex::Oh Gee. I would say between$250 to 500 an hour. Okay. Fashion is a tight, tight knit clique sort of. Matter of fact, some friends in New York City, commercial photographers, they said to me,"Alex, don't go there. That's a fashion mafia." They knew and they were doing very well. They were getting consistent$250,000 jobs now and stuff like the commercial photography. And they wanted me to work with it. That's why when I bought a house here and I told my friends in New York City, I am moving to Ohio, they were like,"What? Ohio?" You know, I was doing so well for a retiree. Right, right. And again, New York City being very liberal and this is a red state. What? So, yeah, this whole thing of chance sometimes even with Nike I kind of felt guilty, you know, like a person who's the only survivor in an airplane crash, like why did I live and they died. It's like, why did I get the job here? There are eople that are better than myself. Right?
Lu::Or they've spent maybe a huge amount getting trained and do all that.
Alex::I was luckier than they were. I was in the right place and they weren't. And again, aggression. Well it's not aggression, but being pushy and New York City:"Here, check this out. Here."You know, and it worked for me
:I keep talking about it now. My wife is getting tired of me talking about it. As a former teacher, I felt that I'd like to offer free professional services. But I think that the operative phrase was professional services. They just saw me, I think as a retired hobbyist who was pretty good. They didn't think, gee, I'm a professional, I was used to getting paid a lot to do stuff like this. And so I was doing it and they were really happy and thankful. But it got to a point where it's like, it was like expected. People would even get angry if I turned down something."I've seen that" or"I don't want to do that" or"I did it already" or"I got something else". Like, what's wrong with you? That's crazy. And so I've wondered if sometimes if people are too nice, they're taken advantage of. So I dunno if that's outside of the boundary of art, the artists per se, or just human nature to take advantage of people that seem to be soft or weak or whatever. And by being free in New York, I learned one thing with rich people. If you don't value your product at a high level, rich people think you must not be any good. So sometimes you can rate your product at a ridiculous, high price. Then they're,"Wow, this guy must be good!" If it's free, what's the big deal?" And I had an issue with the athletic department at Lakewood High School where they put out a whole publication of 15 pages of photos and no photo credits for anyone. Not just my stuff, but no one. And I was,"How do you do that? That's wrong." And so maybe it's ignorance, maybe it's just not knowing stuff.
Alex::Yeah. This is the problem I have with, and being an artist and photographer in a small town, never had that issue in New York City. First thing is photo credits, boom. You know, this, that, you know how much money you paid for this, you know, sign contracts, whatever. Yeah. So that's...
Lu::Yeah. So that's a difference. And at least, well, now you know. I know you said is it being taken advantage of? I don't know. I mean, I honestly don't know. I think it is more not, there's not the expectation. There are people here apparently willing to do that more. As opposed to in New York City, it's expected. It's the norm there. It's not the norm here. So to try and build that up. And again, the idea of doing it. I think you may be right, that if you just only do things for free or you start out that way, sometimes...
Alex::It's like you can never take it back. Right, right. You know, like teaching, if you start teaching the first day and you're friendly and nice with the kids, then when you try to get strict, it doesn't work. You start with being strict and maybe then getting nice later. And so lpeople do ask for how much would you charge me in? I'll say something, you know. Oh. You'll never hear from them again. But artists treat artists well in Cleveland. One example...
Lu::Now that is good to hear.
Alex::Artists treat fellow artists. My first paid gig was for a classical music group and they immediately said"How much?" And they never questioned the price and they paid me. And other musicians have hired me and I probably undercharged them, but at least they appreciate art. You know, fellow artists. it's all the other people that I think don't have that kind of appreciation. Again to photography nowadays, everybody's a photographer.
Lu::Right? That's happened in so many industries. We were in video, so video again, everybody can take video. Everybody can take photos. Desktop publishing predated that so everybody can publish. But do you tell the story well? Do you capture the image well? And I think at some point if you're good it rises. Again, but you go through this.
Alex::I agree. I think your product speaks for itself, you know. Rather than me boosting my product, people see it."Oh Wow, that's really good stuff." And my editor back in New York City shooting from newspaper:"Your photos should either tell a story or beg a story." It's not a snapshot, it's a photograph. And photo journalism. Journalism means this is a story, there's something. You're telling something and then that picture has to do that. Which most of the time I'd go out with a reporter, and so you're able to sense what he's asking questions to certain people. So you try to look for pictures that kind of mesh. They articulate with the story. That's what sells.
:And so I've learned to also set up my compositions, that I'm catching the inner, the persona of the person, not just the person, the charisma. If the person has that, that's tricky to catch that. But if you do catch it, other people will pick it up. We're hard wired when we look at other people to pick up their waves, their energy. You know, it's something like maybe it's a protective mechanism from the evolutionary times. But if you do it, people can just look and see it. It's an ineffable thing. It's hard to explain. Either you got it, or you don't got it.
Lu::Right. And you can see it. I mean, when, when you're looking through your photos, yeah, you know which ones speak.
:We're talking about transitions too. I know we talked a little bit, you're trying to make a slightly new transition, about doing more in video and cinematography. Yes. Tell me how that came about and how it's going.
Alex::I was curious about, I've always been curious about people making movies. You know, seeing behind the scene. When you buy a DVD nowadays, they have whole disc sometimes of how they made the movie. Right? Yeah. I bet you some of that stuff is more interesting than the movie is.
:So because here, Cuyahoga community college--Tri-C, they call it-- has a special Program 60, which means anybody over 60 years old can take one class a semester free.
Lu::Yes. Yay for being older!
Alex::So I took one on TV studio production. Okay. You know, learning how to run those big TV cameras. It's a whole different thing than that DSLR that I'm using. And we were setting up short videos, interviews really, about interesting people and interesting stories. They counted me as one of the interesting people in the class. So I introduced myself and the professor was like,"Oh, I think you heard this guy, right? One of you ought to interview him." And then he would say to me after class,"Why did you?" I had to explain,"Why did you come from New York state?" Nobody wants to do that, right?
:So anyway, another student, as a matter of fact, it was just two of us that were over 60 in the program. And the other guy who was also, over 60, he brought in a movie producer, director Logan Fry was his name. Fascinating guy, was a lawyer. He did this, he did that, you know, a man of all trades. And as soon as he walked into our studio, something in me clicked and said, I like this guy, right? But I liked this guy. I walked up to introduce myself. I said,"Dude. You got the really good frames!" I liked the way everything was. I, I was like the New York City thing, maybe being a little pushy, but then we became friends. And he was shooting, reshooting some scenes of a short movie he had made that won all kinds of awards.
Alex::It was a very specific subculture, you know, like garbage trash films, they call them? Really big in Europe, Germany, for that subculture. It's huge. So I brought along one of my cameras, which has really good video on it. And he had a special gimbal stabilizer and I shot the scenes of the second cameraman. He was a primary cameraman, but a stationary camera. I was moving along with the character. So they were able to splice things together. And with video you don't immediately know what you got whereas with stills, you do. And so he said to me after he ran it through his computer video program, he said,"Your stuff was great. So look at this." He says,"You were pulling focus between 35 seconds and 53 seconds. How did you do that?" I said, I didn't, I had the right equipment and I knew how to set it up. The technical piece, you have that picture in your head. That's what good producers and directors have. And I really admire those good... You know how they have all of that in their head and then they've got to make it work. You have to have the right equipment. And I was able to make that work. So now the movie might be going to Sundance and definitely being produced in Argentina, in UK and Germany, France, especially in Europe. And so this is a new place that I'm thinking of getting into, short indie movies.
:And also the other piece is screenwriting, I entered a contest. It starts October the 13th. It's worldwide. You write. They give you these topics and you have to write a short script of no more than five pages. I forget how long. But I said to myself,"If you're a screenwriter, you don't even need actors or camera people." If you can write a really good script and someone reads it and buys it. And that again, just like photography, how many thousands of scripts are being sent to agents? My professor would even travel to LA, to California, to try to sell his script. And it was just, again, who do you know?
Lu::Right, right, right. The connection. What's wonderful, I mean obviously you're going to be drawn to something you're interested in. You bring the high school English background. You can write. Now you understand about the visual because you've been taking photographs and you're doing that. It's such a neat merging of skills that you bring.
Alex::Well, let's see. We have to see if it works.
Lu::Well, I know you're going to try it,
Alex::Right, exactly what you said. The components are there, of putting it together. And there's a time limit you have to hand it in by. I forget how long they give you... A couple of days.
Lu::Oh, so it's a timed contest! Oh, see you can't work on it now yet.
Alex::You don't know what the topics are.
Lu::I kind of like that.
:We've talked about a number of transitions, but they all seem...I love that the Big Apple seems to fit into it either geographically or again, your mindset. More what you grew up thinking about your--I know we've called it pushiness, I don't even know if it is that--but your willingness to just be out there and go after it. And so I'm framing it in that. But any advice for somebody either making a, a move like you did or this idea of trying different careers and getting into something?
Alex::Go for it. You know, like Nike says, just do it. Yeah, go for it. You have nothing to lose. In other words, if I were to stop taking pictures today, does no tie into my financial health. In other words, I don't need the extra money that I make. It's good if I can make extra money, but I can just walk away from it. So go for it. You know, you have nothing to lose. And if that doesn't work, go for it for something else. I sense some people are afraid. For instance, photographers, local Lakewood photographers, I think they don't do that much of street photography because they're afraid to approach people on the street they don't know. Or if they take a picture of them from across the street,"Oh, you're a perv," you know, something like that. And if you take pictures of children, well that's a whole other area. But legally, if a child is in a public place, you can take a picture of a child. We'd rather not do it as a courtesy and the cultural times that we live in. But that sense of approaching others and in just ingratiating yourself and being a people person, well that makes photography work. And so some people, because of their hesitancy... Again, I posted a picture of a young man sitting, meditating on the Solstice Steps at Lakewood Park. People got on my case because I didn't speak to him and ask permission. I said I didn't have to. And number one, why would I want to interrupt his meditative mood? He was eyes closed. He was like praying. I'm not going to get into that space. And because he was in a public place, I was perfectly okay with taking that.
:People:"Oh you shouldn't. But well, you know what? It might be legal, but it's not neighborly." See, that community thing. I never would hear that in New York City, but then when I spoke to, of all people, the new football coach and Lakewood high school, guess what? That was the coach's friend and the friend when he found out about the picture, thought it was great. He liked it. I wish he have told me. Right, right. You know, got in touch with me and said,"By the way, thank you for the picture. I liked that." But you see I had to deal with this, the different cultural place. And so notice"it's not neighborly," even though it might be legal. But it's not neighborly. Well that's according to you, I'm a photographer who sees a really great picture. This neighborly thing is a subjective value that you put on it. See that again, that cultural paradigm shift. I never had that in New York City.
Lu::I actually get that. I have to say, I am probably one of those people who would be a little hesitant. Is that why I take pictures of windows and doors? I don't have to ask permission of windows and doors. So I mean, that could come up from so many things, but I am a Cleveland native.
Alex::I give advice to people. Let's say to you as a fellow photographer and videograper, when you walk up to people, be positive."Wow. You look great. And I just love that look you have. I'm a photographer and I'd love to take your picture." All they can say is"no, please" or"leave me alone." And then walk away. That's the hard part. People don't like to be turned down or to be put into a sort of a negative vibe situation. Be bold. They're not hurting you. They're not hitting you.
Lu::Right. They're not. Right, and you're not hurting them. Any other advice, or any other thing I should have asked you? Otherwise we'll wrap this up.
Alex::Well, I want to thank you so much for asking me here. As one of your... I'm what they call the interviewee, right?
:Yeah, you are our guest. How about I just say,"guest?" That's more neighborly!
Alex::And, and it's nice to be able to put your story out for other people because people are interested in what's your story? Well, here's mine.
Lu::I have to say, since you brought this up.(We'll see if it ends up in the podcast or not.) I'm talking too often to people I have known for a long time. And how often do you sit down and spend an hour and actually talk about, talk to them, focus on them and something important about their life, how they've made decisions, how they've made changes. I am finding this personally, so different and satisfying.
Alex::Is it cathartic?
Lu::I don't know. For each person doing it, it might be.
Alex::Well, you know, I asked the question. Most therapists for instance, and I have a therapist and I'm not ashamed. Most therapists will talk about, keeping a journal writing. The journal writing is the reflection of your inner thoughts that you can always look at later. Sometimes you even forget what they were by releasing these feelings. Something about the transition of emotional, psychological ideas on to paper. In this case, a podcast. The recording is Cathartic, I know, for me to get it out.
:Now of course there's some things I'd like to say, but I'm not going to say because it's just not wise to say those things, but still it's kind of like, you get the monkey off your back so to speak. But at the same time too, who knows as a teacher who's going to listen? Who's gonna hear this and who's going to say,"You know what, maybe I'll try that!" Because I know as a teacher I am surprised by students I meet 20 years later. And I did. I met a student who was a doctor. She was taking my blood before surgery and I looked at her, I knew there was something about her and when she looked at me and then saw my name, she said,"oh Geez, I was your student." Wow. And she was a lawyer first and then became a doctor."Wow. I didn't know you were that smart!"
Lu::But I think what you're saying is true. What it makes me think about, it was one of the people I interviewed after we talked, she was already planning to do this, but she has started a support group. Again, I'm not going to take credit for her motivation, but it moved her along a path of being more open with what her situation was and helping others. When I started telling people that this was going to be about life transitions and asking if there was something similar... Now I haven't done, you know, huge research. The people who told me that there had been something, it was more clinical people doing transitions out of like addictions and stuff like that. This appeals to me more. It always has as a documentary maker. It's like, what's your story? Every individual does have a story. When we did documentaries, we would be introduced to a whole new world. What a great way to make a living!
Alex::Even the big networks--Hbo has shows 30 on 30, 60 on 60. You know, the short... Because, don't forget, people have short attention spans. But yeah, everybody has a story. Everybody would like to hear the story. And you never know. You just don't. We don't know what the future is so we have to be as forthright within parameters of what's careful to protect our psyche and our integrity. And you know, that whole thing, all of us have these invisible psychic barriers that they're protecting ourselves. We'll go only so much out of that. And then there are these boundaries that we do not cross or want other people to cross. So I think that's the issue when you do life transitions and stories, is to respect one's psychic integrity. That's, that's a crazy area there.
Lu::Well, hopefully I respected that for you. I would also think it's sort of self controlled. You'll share what you're going to share and we got it out there. So thank you. We thank you for sharing that part of your story and your life journey.
:This wraps up today's visit with Alex Belisle.
Alex::That's B. E. L. I. S. L. E. Beautiful island.
Lu::Oh, yes, yes. You're somebody who took a chance, to leave the only type of life you had known, leaving the big city and trying out life and retirement here in a bit more of a small town. So I just think we're blessed that you moved into our community and that you're willing to share your creative talents with all of us. You've been listening to"Passing Through Life," a show that explores how people get through major life changes. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a wonderful review in Apple podcasts that will help new listeners know more what to expect. And you can email me at passingthroughlifepodcast@gmail.com. Feel free to comment about this show or suggest people and topics for future episodes. I'm Luanne Bole-Becker. Thanks again for joining us.